[URGENT] NAC Hosting Issues - We need YOUR Feedback!

[Arynis]

Hello everyone!

Unfortunately our hosting has come to a point where our Site Owner can no longer keep up the site by himself, and has to look into options for free hosting. On the flip side, that means NAC has gotten quite big, so there's that to feel good about!

We have approximately a month to go until we have to make a decision.

The crutch of the decision, however, are the Download Forums.

We cannot have donations and/or ads with such a section, as that would mean we'd be profiting from such material (regardless of the reason for our money making), making us a bright, hot target for C&D. On the other hand, free hosting may come with its own issues and it may not be enough to hold our capacity. (Meaning possible slow load times, downtimes, etc.)

We felt it would be best to ask our memberbase on the matter, and what is more important to the people of NAC. There's a poll you can vote on, so please help us with our decision to see which option would be the most preferable!

If you have any comments or concerns, please don't hesitate to post in the thread.

Thanks for your help in advance, as well as your understanding.

[NeoArkadia]

And before anyone panics: We're not planning to shut down.

[Linka]

Personally recommending taking the downloads off-site to somewhere else, as I imagine part of the load on the site is just from that alone. Tumblr or a similar blogging service or free site hosting would be best to just put things up onto.

Or you could just make two forums instead and mod specific people to handle that, since there's still other things that would drive them to here as well. It'd help separate the load on both sides, and might make a free hosting option more viable for both.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

Tendencially, I think, we most probably need to exclude the DL-section somehow, to have access to funding via donations and advertisements. The question is 'how do we do that' because, it is a hell of a lot of work in there and actually quite a few fans rely on it.
For the time being, I can offer my now 'private' blog (which has most of the links in anyways), as a temporary feature at least, depending on what Umi will prefer (looks like he would take this as a compromise, until a better solution will pop up). But I will keep it private, so people will have to register there to access the links, because all the links will be down in a jiffy due to DMCA complaints, as soon as Google and other search engines get a glimpse of the links. I am (and Umi is) fed up with the DMCA complaints and re-uploading.

Also, I am looking into how to set up the whole thing as some kind of archive to be accessed via IRC (which, honestly, I think is a more secure option). But then we would need to move our irc from Darkmyst to Rizon, probably. Darkmyst mainly is for roleplay and not very fond of XDCC-bots, from what I heard. Also, we would need to pay a server, again, to where the whole archive goes.
Well, all these are thoughts about options, but I try to make myself more knowlegable about the IRC-stuff, in case we need it.

[Wslasher]

There's always Nyaa for downloads (assuming that new anti-anime streaming law doesn't pass) so why not go for the 1st option in the poll?

For the record, I voted on #2 just because no one uploads YGO/CFV stuff on Nyaa other than raw & subbed episodes. OST & such are only found here for a sad twisted fate otherwise I would have never came back in this forum in the first place.

[Linka]

Just a note, nyaa is a torrent site, right? There are gonna be people (including myself) who are not very comfortable with torrents anymore, due to ISPs having cracked down on any sign of use of that before. The Mega uploads have been far more reliable as-is.

[Sangria]

T-there's an anime anti-streaming law? NOOOO...the law hates everything I love!

....on-topic, free servers are awesome. I've never used the DL section aside from maybe one or two music DL's, and am really in it for the community that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[Wilren]

If this were the only place on the Internet this stuff could be downloaded from, I'd say keep it, but that's about as far from the truth as you can get, now isn't it?

Like Sangria, I don't use the DL section at all, coming to the forum entirely to hang out with friends and see what's going on in the card game. If keeping all that means little more than having to mentally block out one or two more ads and not worry about any legal harangues about downloads, so mote it be.

[Orochinagi]

I don't recommend a costless hosting service, like at all. Stay away from them. Some of them will even offer "Unlimited" bandwith or "Unlimited" disk space, but in reality such thing doesn't exist.
This forum generates a ton of traffic and with the bandwidth/resource usage provived the those servers you'll experience downtime every single day for exceeding said bandwidth limit/resource usage.

I think I have used the Download forum only once or twice at most, so I'm not really worried about its fate. If anything that's what attracts leechers.

A question, Where is this site hosted and how much do you pay? There should be other alternatives around the web. Then again, once again, stay way from free hosting services.

[GoldenUmi]

I've never used the DL section aside from maybe one or two music DL's, and am really in it for the community that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I appreciate the jokes to lighten up the mood a bit.

[PoloMarco Яeverse]

I've never used the DL section aside from maybe one or two music DL's, and am really in it for the community that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I appreciate the jokes to lighten up the mood a bit.

I don't get it.

[MasterGhost]

I've never used the DL section aside from maybe one or two music DL's, and am really in it for the community that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I appreciate the jokes to lighten up the mood a bit.

I don't get it.

Recommended that you continue not to get it then <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/heehee.gif" alt="" title="Heehee" /><!-- s -->

Anyway, I voted on #2, because some people really depend on the Downloads and I think they don't want them to go too.

[MorningMoon]

I'd say #1 and move the download section off-site, a few blog sites would be nice for that, along with nyaa, since, if i'm understanding correctly, it'd simply be a place to post the links to Mega and torrent sites, no?

[zero-turn]

I'd moved the Download section offsite, so that you can then add a donation and advertisement section here without consequences. But the Download section is imperative imo, since that is what attracted me to this site in the first place. What a dilemma. Free servers are junk mostly, you'd just be wasting your time setting something up to fail, so skip that option. If the Download section were to be moved offsite, what would be the best choices? Some mentioned Blogs with links to free cyberlockers like Mega. I think that would be simple and effective at this point, and probably is the best solution overall.

[PoloMarco Яeverse]

I appreciate the jokes to lighten up the mood a bit.

I don't get it.

Recommended that you continue not to get it then <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/heehee.gif" alt="" title="Heehee" /><!-- s -->

Anyway, I voted on #2, because some people really depend on the Downloads and I think they don't want them to go too.

Please tell me!! <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/crying.gif" alt="" title="Crying" /><!-- s -->

Also, I would like to have no DL section. I never really use it so I have no use for it.

[GoldenUmi]

Please tell me!! <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/crying.gif" alt="" title="Crying" /><!-- s -->

What is the opposite of warm and fuzzy?

That is your answer.

[realcomptoncityg]

Darn it, this day had to come

I think we would need to move the download section to some other website or it's own separate server (idk downloads.neooarkcradle.net) but then again I doubt that would happen. The site feels incomplete without the Download Section, I live there on this site...

[unsnaggedtea76]

I'd like to keep the download section because I like to download episode of ARC-V, 5D's, and GX when I can. I don't want to have to deal with Torrents though. If the downloads are something like MP4s or MKVs, I can play them

If the site does allow ads, I would like to ask that they NOT be video ads. I sometimes have enough trouble with them when I go to visit a wikia, like the YGO wikia for example.

[Takibi]

I say move the downloads away. They are a big risk and they're putting all of NAC in jeopardy for something that's not even really needed. Like Wilren said, it's not like stuff's not available on other sites.

Definately don't do a free option for the forum. Instead, maybe consider the free option for the downloads. There's less traffic going to the downloads than the rest of the forums so it shouldn't be as much of a concern about overloading or whatever. Torrents are good too.

For the time being, I can offer my now 'private' blog (which has most of the links in anyways), as a temporary feature at least, depending on what Umi will prefer (looks like he would take this as a compromise, until a better solution will pop up). But I will keep it private, so people will have to register there to access the links, because all the links will be down in a jiffy due to DMCA complaints, as soon as Google and other search engines get a glimpse of the links. I am (and Umi is) fed up with the DMCA complaints and re-uploading.

What's your private blog?

Also, I am looking into how to set up the whole thing as some kind of archive to be accessed via IRC (which, honestly, I think is a more secure option). But then we would need to move our irc from Darkmyst to Rizon, probably. Darkmyst mainly is for roleplay and not very fond of XDCC-bots, from what I heard. Also, we would need to pay a server, again, to where the whole archive goes.

I don't think IRC is good cuz they can DMCA your server and then everything goes down at once and your screwed. At least now there are many links and it's easier to fix one by one if they go down. And then there's the problem of server costs like you said.

T-there's an anime anti-streaming law? NOOOO...the law hates everything I love!

No there isn't. Whereever you heard it, don't believe it.

If the Download section were to be moved offsite, what would be the best choices? Some mentioned Blogs with links to free cyberlockers like Mega. I think that would be simple and effective at this point, and probably is the best solution overall.

Free forums, or Tumblr, or any free website. Does it really make that big of a difference? It's just a bunch of links in a long list. You just need people to organize the list so it's nice and neat and to fix broken links if there's any. Torrents would be even easier because then the tracker organizes everything.

What is the opposite of warm and fuzzy?

That is your answer.

Cool and hairless? <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Grin" /><!-- s -->

[StarGazerTom]

1)Use the forum for everything, but strip its download section
2)Make a NAC-SUBS Blog somewhere, to post Downloads
3) ????
4) Profit!

[~Mana~]

What's the problem with running donations already? Yes, there's a download section but the server itself doesn't appear to be hosting any of the files that you offer on there, with most being hosted on MEGA or as a torrent. Generally, you should be fine.

Another option would be to introduce a form of premium membership. Let's say $10 for a year of membership and grants you a coloured username and some extra emotes or something? That way, as this method technically isn't donating as you're paying for a service, you definitely wouldn't need to worry.

I run a forum myself and we get by with the membership option. Of course, we run IPB instead of phpBB, which has membership options integrated.

[NeoArkadia]

What's the problem with running donations already? Yes, there's a download section but the server itself doesn't appear to be hosting any of the files that you offer on there, with most being hosted on MEGA or as a torrent. Generally, you should be fine.

Bluntly put, we have more or less been informed by sources that shall remain nameless that should NAC have ads while providing infringing materials, it will be seen as profiteering and thus we become open C&D. No nevermind we don't host the stuff directly, corporations are corporations. DMCA > Sound Logic.

[Wslasher]

What I don't understand is, why not just use the revenue you get from YGOrg to maintain this forum? Surely you mods/admins are getting paid for your services over there right...RIGHT?!?!

[Arynis]

Actually, they don't. It's all volunteer work.

Also, we've been told that even if the Org wanted to help us out, it would take a good while for them to get to that point.

[Kahun]

What I don't understand is, why not just use the revenue you get from YGOrg to maintain this forum? Surely you mods/admins are getting paid for your services over there right...RIGHT?!?!

We run YGOrg out of Dan's pocket.
Most of us are either jobless or too busy paying bills for our families.
We have yet to make a proper profit out of the group and even if our options for making profit could work out it will take a minimum of two~three years.
The guys that work for YGOrg are essentially the guys that founded YGOrg + a few volunteers with no contractual obligations.

In other words, we're our own bosses. We receive zero compensation, and if we somehow made money we'd already be paying the bills for NAC.

[Wslasher]

So does Dan get revenue from the ads or is it hosted on a free server that generates ads to compensate? I assume the ads alone can generate $100-200 per month every time a new Jump-lation article is posted, hell it crashes at least once a month due to how heavy traffic it gets.

[NeoArkadia]

He generates revenue via AdSense and thus clicking ads.

[Zenetos]

I would be willing to donate, only If the site didn't also use ad revenue. So Donations or Ads would be my choice, but not both.

[Lance99]

Well, it had to happen eventually. :/ It's a shame I haven't had much time to mingle outside the Download Forums for a while now (dang it, life!), but it's good to hear the userbase has been growing. Given the choices and others posted, I'd say stripping the Download Forums from here and moving them off-site would be a good compromise, if doable, considering all the work that's been contributed there. I'm just afraid of direct links like MEGA being posted on Tumblr since, once a post gets really popular, more and more eyes can see it, and then eventually they might get taken down (it's happened to a few masterposts I've reblogged); it's why I've only got a masterpost of GX streaming links on mine. I mean, unless there was a way to restrict its viewing to followers or just using another site that requires registration to view the links. Donating is also an option, though some may not have a lot of funds to work with (*points at self*).

[Linka]

Just a suggestion, but it might be possible that instead of making a post on a tumblr that gets reblogged or something, maybe put the links into a separate page on the tumblr itself that you'd edit, and only make posts announcing an episode's release or any news you might need to say. That way it can reduce the possibility of them getting so popular, that they're noticed by folks who'd want them to get taken down.

You can also password protect them, and just put up the access info onto here, or maybe require that you need to send a request to a mod to get it, meaning you have to at least be on the forum in the first place to get it.

[~Mana~]

What's the problem with running donations already? Yes, there's a download section but the server itself doesn't appear to be hosting any of the files that you offer on there, with most being hosted on MEGA or as a torrent. Generally, you should be fine.

Bluntly put, we have more or less been informed by sources that shall remain nameless that should NAC have ads while providing infringing materials, it will be seen as profiteering and thus we become open C&D. No nevermind we don't host the stuff directly, corporations are corporations. DMCA > Sound Logic.

Ah, so essentially you want to play it safe just in case. That's fair enough.

What about my second point about paid memberships? Technically users would be paying for a specific service/product and it wouldn't go down as having anything to do with the fact that links to copyrighted material exist on the site. You'd also probably want to declare that NAC is a non-profit organisation if you go down this route and, providing the paid memberships bring in more than you need for the month, you could either put the extra aside into a forum pot to fall back on and not touch it yourself, or you could use it to help fund YGOrg's upkeep as well.

There are definitely a number of ways around this to prevent moving onto a free server or moving the downloads off-ste and to maintain upkeep without impacting personal funds heavily.

I understand that it's probably not my business to know anyway, but what is the cost of the server upkeep for NAC (and YGOrg if it runs on the same server)?

[a-hole]

*sigh* Fucking DMCA....well, anyway, what Sangria said - the community is what I'm here for, not the DLs; let's deal w/ the community first, and everything else second.

[Tsukumo Yuma]

All I can think of are two things, make a website that is free, that has all the ddl links for yugioh, and just that, but that also has a high likelyhood of being taken down.

Start doing IRC downloads, but the problem with that is making sure the bots act right.
Bots can be an issue in more ways then one.

[Linka]

Bots on IRC, and really any downloading on IRC, has always been a severe problem for me. I have yet to have a direct download work over IRC.

[PDUTogepi]

I think adding ads/donations and moving the downloads elsewhere to a place not connected to the main forum is probably the way to go. I use the download forum a lot as it's my only source for getting recent episodes (I'm one of those peeps who isn't a fan of using torrent these days) and I enjoy the work that Umi and the subbing team put into the episodes, but I feel moving the downloads so you can add donations or adverts is the best for the forum overall. Like it's been mentioned, free options may not have the capacity to support the forum, especially if it continues growing in popularity.
Sadly, I can't really add any more solutions for the downloads that haven't already been mentioned.

[Blue-Eyes White Wanderer]

Based on the situation, I think that moving the downloads elsewhere would probably be the best course of action. I understand why people would like using the Download Section, even though I've rarely used it, but if it is causing problems with the forums and making it impossible for ads/donations to happen for the site, then it unfortunately should be removed and put on a different site. Besides that, I also come here more for the community rather than the downloads, so I think it's important to help the site and community first while the downloads should be secondary. A free server would definitely not be a good idea. That would probably result in the forums being much slower and places offering free servers are a rip-off anyway.

[hearow2]

As a member who does go into the Downloads forum on more than a few occasions, this bit of news is saddening. I use that forum to enjoy the latest manga scans (RAW and translated), the Sound Duels of each series, and the subbed episode work of the generous members here.

Although I would like the Downloads forum to stay, I do understand that it's important to keep the community going smoothly, so if that must go for this site to keep running, then so be it. And from what I read from the other posts above, it seems that the Downloads section itself is just being moved to another place outside of this site, and members will still be able to access it. So, I'm willing to give that solution a try.

[Lia]

Way too much time and efforts are thrown into the DL forum and its more or less the pride of our community.....aside from the fact that the community itself is amazing. I see both equally important. Even after the 3 years I've been around, I'm still using the DL forum for all the DM and Zexal stuff. If the DL forum can be transferred the way it is and stored in separate place with no great danger of being lost, then I might as well accept that the first option seems the best solution for the moment. I only wonder if a secure enough place for the downloads exists at all, since......nothing lasts forever on the internet. =/

[Arynis]

First of all, thanks for everyone for their feedback and votes!

Second, Shadowfang has informed me that he paid the site for 2 more months, meaning everything stays the same for now. However, the issue regarding paying the site costs still stands.

[a-hole]

Yay, Our Jolly German Overlord bought us some time! Thanks, Shadowfang! <!-- s:yay: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/yay.png" alt=":yay:" title="Yaaay" /><!-- s:yay: -->

Glad we don't have to rush to a solution now, as this shit's always so fucking complicated. --_--