Regarding the Arc-V 46 Thread and the Forum's Warning System

[NeoArkadia]

There seems to be confusion of why TerrorKing was ultimately banned. Contrary to some people's beliefs, he was not ultimately banned for his criticism of Arc-V. What happened was:

• One of our members reported the post for basically being inflammatory/trolling/trying to stir up trouble.

• MystikX took the report sent to us via the member and examined the post.

• Having noticed behavior in previous threads, TerrorKing was warned for what was judged by him (Mystik) to be inflammatory behavior (yes he was criticizing but he was judged on past behavior to be doing it specifically to give everyone else on the forum a hard time and a less enjoyable experience, rather than to engage in civil conversation with his fellow peers.)

• Because TerrorKing had accumulated two prior warnings within the last two months, he reached his third warning.

• Our forum has a six strikes system. Here's how it works:
* The First Two Warnings are basically to ask you guys to reflect on behavior. We will try to PM members civilly first to clear up the air, but if behavior repeats, we give out warnings.

* Upon the third warning, a member will be denied access (i.e. banned) to the forum for one day.

* If they accumulate a fourth warning, said member gets a week off from being allowed to join.

* If they get a fifth, we remove the member from access for a month.

* If a member is unlucky enough to accumulate 6 warnings in one year (i.e. 365 days), they will be permanently denied access to Neo Ark Cradle as a member under current policy.

• As a note to the above, if you use an alternate account/VIP/etc. to get around your ban, our policy is to ban the offending alternate account for allowing the member evasion of their bans, and permanently ban the original account. This is true even for the one day ban.

So ultimately, TerrorKing was basically told to sit out for a day. If he wishes to return and contribute positively to the forum, he is more than welcome. If he does not, that is his choice.

Any questions?

[Arynis]

To add to the above, we're not going to tolerate people starting drama over staff decisions/behavior. If there's a problem or a question, we're more than willing to discuss them with anyone as long as it stays civil. Conspiracy theories or attacking staff doesn't solve anything and just makes things worse for everyone involved.

[The HydЯa]

It might not be my place, but I am very happy that NAC staff is being open. This sort of openness cuts down on the conspiracy theories and turmoil that burnt down DNF. Thanks for being so understanding and explainging <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/smile.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s -->

[MystikX]

inb4 people say my recent promotion caused the power to go to my head

[Arynis]

To further clarify my previous post in the thread, I mean we're open to discussing any matter, not just this one. If nobody speaks up or asks anything, we won't know the problem / can't do anything. Or if you do it uncivilly, well... just don't.

[MasterGhost]

To add on, the guy is extremely notorious on the Yu-Gi-Oh forums in Pojo, claiming stuff like (and I quote):

"I'm a god"
"I'm better than you"
">you people still thinking I consider your opinion as anything worthy of contemplation"
... and so on.

The context of those quotes, by the way, were not meant to be jokes. Sure at certain points he did make good arguments, but most of the time he showed blatant disrespect to fellow fans of the game, at one point even stirring up trouble in the Clash of Rebellion thread by insulting Yu-Gi-Oh and claiming how his own interest (Magic the Gathering by the way) is a far superior game.

Example:

The point is, Yugioh's fandom and the company in charge of it are a toxic mix.

And people still are invested in yugioh? lol

Further quotes can be found here: http://www.pojo.biz/board/search.php?searchid=17327684

If any Mods or Admins find this post against the rules, please delete it, but personally I don't find whatsoever wrong with everything said above since those are cold, hard facts. And I didn't insult him.

[TerrorKingA]

This post brought to my attention has compelled me to post.

To add on, the guy is extremely notorious on the Yu-Gi-Oh forums in Pojo, claiming stuff like (and I quote):

"I'm a god"
"I'm better than you"
">you people still thinking I consider your opinion as anything worthy of contemplation"
... and so on.

The context of those quotes, by the way, were not meant to be jokes. Sure at certain points he did make good arguments, but most of the time he showed blatant disrespect to fellow fans of the game, at one point even stirring up trouble in the Clash of Rebellion thread by insulting Yu-Gi-Oh and claiming how his own interest (Magic the Gathering by the way) is a far superior game.

Example:

The point is, Yugioh's fandom and the company in charge of it are a toxic mix.

And people still are invested in yugioh? lol

Further quotes can be found here: http://www.pojo.biz/board/search.php?searchid=17327684

If any Mods or Admins find this post against the rules, please delete it, but personally I don't find whatsoever wrong with everything said above since those are cold, hard facts. And I didn't insult him.

1. Why do the things I say on an unaffiliated site matter to you?

2. What does the Yu-Gi-Oh card game and Konami the company being the definition of trash have to do with anything I said?

3. What does me despising the Yu-Gi-Oh fandom have to do with anything?

Please, answer these three questions. When you do, you should see how utterly irrelevant these points you raise are in this particular matter.

-------------------------

That out of the way, all three warnings were farces. The moonrunes mod clearly had a personal problem with me, and said as much via pm, where he neglected my complaint because "Sorry, I simply don't manage to see you as a victim." Right, because I'm not a person and you don't break the rules when you're antagonizing me.

Clearly that last sentence is objective truth since none of the parties (the above poster, moonrunes mod, GoldenUmi) instigating actual trouble in the 46 thread after my initial post didn't get warned/banned. How on Earth is it acceptable to have mods that openly troll, and then when called out on their juvenile, infantile behavior, the whistleblower is the one that gets punished? "Punished."

Do note that, as the post Johnny made noted, I NEVER go into threads quoting anyone, or addressing anyone. I go in, state my point and then leave. I come back if someone quotes me and then post, defending my stance. For some reason, people seem to take my blanket statements as personal attacks. Basically everything that transpired was a clear knee-jerk reaction from the staff involved, and it's rather upsetting.

[MasterGhost]

1. Why do the things I say on an unaffiliated site matter to you?

Because whatever you say reflects your online personality. If you flame-bait and insult others on Pojo, I have full reason to believe whatever you say on NAC are of the same nature.

2. What does the Yu-Gi-Oh card game and Konami the company being the definition of trash have to do with anything I said?

You never realize what it means to "flame-bait". You are presenting your insult ("being the definition of trash") as a fact, and that incites others to reply you.

3. What does me despising the Yu-Gi-Oh fandom have to do with anything?

Because you do it on a Yu-Gi-Oh forum, and that is why it matters. You want to openly hate something, do not do it in a place where everyone likes it (notice the word here is "hate", not "criticize").

Again, asking this kind of question just shows how you do not understand proper forum behavior nor the definition of "flame-bait" at all.

[Ragna]

So if I cause trouble on Pojo and then I get into a disagreement because I don't like the last few episodes of Arc-V, would I get a warning due to my posting history carrying an implied tone? Why even post at all then if you're just going to be nudged out just because you're arguing with people and your actions in other threads and forums are going to create a bias against literally everything you're saying? That line about being able to return if he wishes is only true on the most basic of levels since the staff has literally just said that post history, even off-forum will follow us everywhere and dictate the tone in which all our posts are judged.

Like, did I miss something? I count three posts on the thread from the person in question, save for the out of line ban-dodging proxy post.

Spoiler

Yuya's new dragon is just another OTK machine. Bland effect, bland design and a bland showing against three nameless, faceless fodder. Even in good-era Yugioh's more questionable show, GX, Neos wasn't debuted against some random character of the week, and his important fusions likewise. This wasn't a thing that happened in DM or 5D's either. But Zezzle and Arc V just throw random upgrades at the screen against the most pointless characters. This is your reminder that Utopia Ray debuted against Jin the Fortuneteller.

Yuzu and Selena's exchange was forced. Why would Selena stick around for her speech when she has shown no interest in what other people have to say all this time? Why would she go along with the clothes switching? The answer to the latter is that the writers want a "Rescue Yuzu" arc really badly.

Another trash episode.

Spoiler

You just watched 46 episodes of trash. Surely time well spent.

What do you hope to gain by posting this? Do you think you're being witty? Maybe cute? Don't quote me unless you're saying something of worth.

I expect better from someone that's a mod, dude.

I am glad you still enjoy watching Arc-V.

Stopped enjoying it many episodes ago. The plot is moving slower than Zezzle's. What's been gained since episode 25? The plot hasn't MOVED at all since then. This tournament is still going on, a bunch of random characters got thrown into the mix, but here we still are at this tournament that still isn't over.

I mean, what?

I would be remiss if I didn't echo that I expect better from someone that's a mod to you as well. Seriously, I can be a bigger sarcastic douchebag than any of you. Let's discuss the show here, since I don't want this to turn into pojo, even though it's rapidly becoming as such.

Spoiler

That's about the only response I have to someone with intentional flame bait. Don't talk about something of worth unless you actually have something of worth to discuss.

The answer to your annoying complaints are that the writers are trying to switch up the formula from the same tried and true methods they've used all the time. Now the characters have seen the dragon and have to think about how to defeat if they ever have to stop Yuya. For Serena, she was shown to have an interest in Yuzu due to their similar appearances, so her listening to her counterpart actually does make sense. The clothes switching thing is a bit forced, I admit.

Alright, brochacho.

"Trying a new formula" doesn't work as an excuse. WHAT are the writers doing? You can't know until the show's over. The show is still running, so it's just pointless meandering. 46 episodes in you have NO excuse for the slow, snail's pace at which the show moves. Or are you one of those people that think we should watch 52 episodes of Zezzle before judging it?

Next, Serena shouldn't even be in the tournament. Reiji acted out of character letting her go cause trouble. "Don't cause trouble in my city," to which she says "I'm going to go cause trouble in your city," and he lets her go for some reason. As for her taking an interest due to similar appearances, that clearly didn't at all bother her in the episode where she and Dennis dueled. It's not "a bit forced" it's "completely forced".

And I'm not gonna play this game where you go "Oh, you have complaints about the show so clearly you hate it!" No, you can like something without liking everything about that thing. I like 5D's despite its failings, I like GX despite its failings. I'm okay with Arc-V, but getting more sour on the show as episode after episode passes without anything changing—anything developing.

Here's the brilliance of 5D's, DM and even GX: they had ARCS. You could tell satisfying stories with beginnings, middles and ends. Then, when you need another arc, you can pick up things introduced in the previous ones and build on it (significance of the millennium items, the abandoned dorm, yliaster). That way, you provide your audience with both a story that ends and a new story using elements of the older one that they may have had questions about.

Then Zezzle came around and instead of the tried and true method for Yu-Gi-Oh, the writers instead had a paper-thing plot that they spread out over 140+ episodes. When you have one plot-relevant episode per 10 of filler, you're spreading your plot out and weaving a more coherent story, BUT out of the hundreds of episode, only a tiny percentage is actually important and the rest is fluff. That's what Zezzle did and that's what Arc V is doing. 46 episodes in and we have answers to almost none of the questions raised in the first 15. That's completely unacceptable from a writing perspective.

So this "new formula" that you seem so tickled by has already failed once. Why should I put my faith in these writers using the same failed formula to tell a satisfying story? They're asking for us to trust that they're taking this show to a good place, but they've done nothing to earn that trust.

If your plot isn't strong enough to run over the course of 100+ episodes, maybe that's telling you to do arcs instead, with clear goals, and clear antagonists. The latter is less important than the clear goals bit. We know nothing of what most of the important characters actually WANT.

But hey, if you think that's good storytelling, more power to you.

1. Neos was debuted against a random character of the week - Episode 62 against Alien of Light.

2. Because she wants to know if she's been lied to and wants to do as much as she can not to get caught. Also terrible running joke about mistaken identity. Although mostly fanservice cuteness factor.

3. As for why she sticks round, she was not in a position to wander off. And she likes shouting at people. And Yuzu did demand at her until she stopped and paid attention.

4. The ninjas would just grab her. It is clear they have been observing from the start in case she does something rash. She only gets to walk off after she says she indicates she won't kill people. And she will still be monitored.

1. Hardly a random character. These mooks have no face, no name—nothing of significance. And Neos' first real outing was against Ed.

2. Why does she care enough to listen to Yuzu when she held so strongly to her beliefs just a few seconds ago that she thrashed Dennis with what we know is legit dangerous technology (Their version of solid vision, that is).

3. Yuzu couldn't stop her; she could've left whenever she wanted. The rest is weak, given that she didn't care to speak to Reiji for long.

4. Except she left stating flatly that she intended to cause trouble. Given Reiji's characterization, he should've beaten her down with his DD's like he did that other guy and sent her back to not!GX.

inb4 people say my recent promotion caused the power to go to my head

Classy.

[TerrorKingA]

1. Why do the things I say on an unaffiliated site matter to you?

Because whatever you say reflects your online personality. If you flame-bait and insult others on Pojo, I have full reason to believe whatever you say on NAC are of the same nature.

2. What does the Yu-Gi-Oh card game and Konami the company being the definition of trash have to do with anything I said?

You never realize what it means to "flame-bait". You are presenting your insult ("being the definition of trash") as a fact, and that incites others to reply you.

3. What does me despising the Yu-Gi-Oh fandom have to do with anything?

Because you do it on a Yu-Gi-Oh forum, and that is why it matters. You want to openly hate something, do not do it in a place where everyone likes it (notice the word here is "hate", not "criticize").

So in summation: none of what you said matters for NAC.

Want to see my 14 year old self's Naruto fanfiction? Clearly that means I'll come over here and talk about Naruto ad nauseum, right?

Want to see 16 year old's me Bleach-bashing? Clearly that means I'll talk about how much Bleach sux here, right?

Your logic doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

"Flame-bait"? EVERYTHING ANYONE POSTS is flame-bait, going by your definition. Stay with me here: when anyone says anything, it is always presented as fact, since it is their own personal truth. It's up to a reader to realize, "Hey, this is that guy's opinion." The atmosphere is 90% Carbon. Does me saying that make it a fact?

--------------------------------------------------------

I'm expecting no less than an apology for me to stick around, I should add.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

Ragna, like I said before (thread 46). The point is not, that someone IS dissenting. I dissent with other people's opinion here a lot, others dissent with me. No problem for me. I make my point, put my arguments, we listen to each other, respect each other. And lots of others dissent with each others here but find a way to respect opinions they themselves don't stand for.
I'm no member on Pojo, and don't like going there. I don't know what happens there apart from the occasional search-for-something-click-Pojo-link.
So, the ways people use or can use to put their dissent seems to be the point of all the commotion here. Very primary RL and online guide line, as I see it, would be: 'Treat others with the same respect as you want to be treated'.

I make up an example:
Opinion: "Dat Yuzeh from 5Ps is a joke duelist, only plot armour, the whole thing is a freakin piece of shit. What were they thinking, people would like such an over-drawn Jezzas fangirl bait?"
"DuelMuppets with that schizo punk (...)"

In these opinions indeed are valid points of criticism. Concerning 5Ds, Yusei HAS plot armour. Yusei HAS a lot of fangirls. DM: Yugi indeed has a double personality. These opinions aren't directly attacking/quoting/naming anyone. But the ways they are put disrespects and hurts quite a few people's feelings, mainly those, who like 5Ds/Yusei/DuelMonsters/Yugi/Atem, and even puts those aback who are just watching it because of entertainment.
If posts or opinions in the like manner come frequently from one person, I as a moderator think
a) Can other, more sensitive people be hurt in their feelings, especially because over time this seems to be the only way, the person posting is willing to articulate itself? Would I myself be hurt in my feelings, if someone talks like that about something I like? Would I be able to discuss the valid points in this or would there be no point at all in discussing them, as they seem to be put in such a provoking, agressive tone that I feel like I can't defend with anything else but knives? b) What is that person's problem?

This is no cercle-jerk and no hunting down of a poor, opressed person. Not at all. I would welcome discussions with TK, because his opinions, though sometimes contrary to mine, have validity. The reflect observations he has made that I might have overseen and that come from his point of view. Solely. If the arguments are brought well and in a respecting manner, me, or anyone else reading his posts, will think about what he said and may move our/their own opinion. But it also would mean for him to accept other opinions having an equal status to his own opinions.
The valitity of an argument is NOT verified by the amount of witty verbal spits and knives it is dressed up with and this amount does in no way make an argument the single valid argument in the whole wide universe.

Actually, I am rather tired of this. I would like it very much, if people wouldn't think, just because someone has a different opinion on something, they are deadly enemies and proactively start fighting like there is no tomorrow...

Also, there is a line between silly jokes and abusing jokes to express the superiority of ones point of view.

[Ragna]

And yet nobody has been able to point out exactly where the posts crossed the line and instead lean on the fact that he has a bad reputation on other threads and sites and is possibly the most disliked member on the forum.

It really boils down to that.

[Kahun]

Spirit of the law vs. Letter of the law argument here, really. TK's general tone of voice is passive-aggressive and denounces entire parties in an overgeneralization as an attempt to start a flame war, at which point he starts calling out the critics for supposedly being idiots and paints them as the wrong ones for attacking little ol' him.

He does it in a fashion that's designed so that he doesn't need to specifically target someone to start a flame war, and it SEEMS as though he's making actual arguments despite not actually caring much for the things he's saying, thus letting him avoid most of the harassment/flame claims through specific loopholes in standard moderating framework while still being able to bully everyone within hearing distance.

The beauty of this is that technically, websites do not have a strict definition of flaming/trolling/harassment, and it's ultimately up to the mods to determine what is or is not harassment, and this means that after a certain critical point that kind of nonsense can be deemed "deliberate trolling" and hit hard. Especially if the person has a reputation for that modus operandi. It's sort of why he got practically kicked off of pojo for toxic behavior and escaped here, and he really hasn't learned from his mistakes.

And do keep in mind that NAC technically has an anti-trolling clause in its rules that lets the staff decide who and who isn't trolling and harassing other members. I mean, we've used it before with more toxic members who were basically going "I didn't do anything wrong, I was just saying the truth" as an excuse to justify their nonsense. It's not like we don't have a precedent, either.

And we're not even playing hardball with him, at that. Yami and Mystik have been generally handling this much more casually and coolly than pretty much anyone else on the old guard or staff has ever been, and they're usually some of the few people in the old guard who are open and accepting enough to take in discussion without resorting to raging passive-aggressive nonsense of their own. Plus they generally tend to avoid some of the obsessive rhetoric we tend to end up throwing out there at times in regards to anime faithfulness or quality.

[Ragna]

Except he really is disappointed with Arc-V. Unless you think that him expressing that he likes the show in earlier threads was all some long term plan to troll the fuck out of the fandom and set the stage to bitch about things he doesn't really care about. In one he even took back a statement he made and said that the show was pretty good. Granted that was a while back but it wasn't the last time he expressed liking Arc-V.

So yeah, no. I don't buy that reasoning.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

Why the heck doesn't he man up then and says it in a non-slashing-around-butt-hurt manner? I had (and still have) my critique points with Arc-V too, I am no avid fan of it at all, especially as I liked Zexal very much (contrary to him), then all the insane hyping of Arc-V being the saviour of YGO and so on... I can indeed relate to that feeling of disappointment. But this doesn't justify treading on others who are not disappointed, in the way Kahu found better words for than I ever could.

[Kahun]

@Ragna
Except he's done that with practically every single series or every single development that's happened in Pojo, too. You could give him the benefit of the doubt, sure, but there's more evidence that he's trolling than that he's not at this point.

And even if he IS disappointed, he tends to basically flame the entire fanbase at once for some bizarre reason, which is still grounds for "warning for trolling". Hell, I've been told to knock it off multiple times for doing similar shit and all of that stuff was justified.

I mean, if you're going to claim that he was lynched because he didn't agree and people got upset at that fact, you also have to consider that's practically the exact damned thing he does to everyone else. Instead of calling it out neutrally, he uses words like Zezzle or trash to specifically denote a negative connection between what he's criticizing and everyone who likes it. The language choice is deliberately strong and can't serve as nothing but a means to offend or become a circlejerk.

I mean, he basically draws aggression to make his point and aggression seem valid, and by basically provoking the opposing party into aggression he can play the role of the victim. But when you get around to seeing it multiple times, it kind of becomes obvious what he's doing, and of course even if the other party has faults it doesn't mean that his argument is actually right. Hell, if you wanted to go all the way down the rabbit hole you could even draw the assumption that TK's doing it because HE wants to be aggressive and flame the shit out of someone, but is too small of a man to just walk away and too much of a coward to take responsibility for his actions without some safety net to let him get off clean.

I mean, I'd like to think otherwise, since I'm actually one of the guys who was vouching for early NAC Terrorking in discussions about his NAC activity elsewhere(Eva was even going WTF are you high when I said TK's generally been a good poster on NAC about a year ago), but even I have to admit his current posting style is basically back to his usual Pojo trolling and flamebaiting and at the very least I can't really say he doesn't deserve it anymore.

Not to say that Umi's particular response has been...level headed...but TK does have enough things going against him right now to warrant trolling/harassment warnings.

And to put this in perspective. As far as I know, Yami's one of the oldest and most level-headed people we've ever had in this community. She's the one person who usually retains the bubbly personality and kind wisdom when the rest of us are flaming hellhounds, and if SHE'S pissed that cannot be a good thing.

[The HydЯa]

I don't nessesarly agree with King. We've had our own share of bitter nasty disagreements. My current warning point is from discussion were I got carried away. But, what I do see in King is sometime to bait out a good discussion you need to be a little abrasive. I'm not the most level headed person on this site, hell not by a long shot, but I do think that we might need someone who strong arms to keep this forum going. If terror is put on the chop block, someone will replace him, it always happens

[闇の女王ヤミ]

To make this clear: I don't and never wanted to have TK put on a chop-block <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/smile.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> But I (and I am sure, others too) would very much appreciate it, if he tones down his attack-mode and starts seeing things again he can enjoy together with others in here.

[Ragna]

@Ragna
Except he's done that with practically every single series or every single development that's happened in Pojo, too. You could give him the benefit of the doubt, sure, but there's more evidence that he's trolling than that he's not at this point.

... I'm sorry what? He never showed up on Pojo until like 2011. "Every series" is 5D's, which he loved to a very annoying degree, ZeXal which he was adamant about giving it a chance before he went full blown HATE mode, and then he spoke about Arc-V here and his disappointment has started to increase. I realize you're trying to stick up for the staff, but you're off to a bad start because that statement is just not true.

And even if he IS disappointed, he tends to basically flame the entire fanbase at once for some bizarre reason, which is still grounds for "warning for trolling". Hell, I've been told to knock it off multiple times for doing similar shit and all of that stuff was justified.

So, again. We're warning him for any aggressive posts, whether he means it or not because of his reputation? And then the OP here pretends to invite him back in genuinely even though if he says an episode sucks one more time he'll get jumped? Sounds like bait that skirts the line of "Okay/Not Okay." Finteresting.

I mean, if you're going to claim that he was lynched because he didn't agree and people got upset at that fact, you also have to consider that's practically the exact damned thing he does to everyone else. Instead of calling it out neutrally, he uses words like Zezzle or trash to specifically denote a negative connection between what he's criticizing and everyone who likes it. The language choice is deliberately strong and can't serve as nothing but a means to offend or become a circlejerk.

I guess Ark can't call people "Dear" anymore. That's patronizing and it offends me. I guess Mako can't post ANYTHING ever again since he literally tears down everyone he disagrees with while LAUGHING. That's aggressive and it offends me.

I mean, he basically draws aggression to make his point and aggression seem valid, and by basically provoking the opposing party into aggression he can play the role of the victim.

Because he used the word trash to describe an episode? It's aggressive, Terrorking is a dick and he's a dick on purpose but seriously? I think you're giving him too much credit.

But when you get around to seeing it multiple times, it kind of becomes obvious what he's doing, and of course even if the other party has faults it doesn't mean that his argument is actually right.

Then punish everyone involved.

Hell, if you wanted to go all the way down the rabbit hole you could even draw the assumption that TK's doing it because HE wants to be aggressive and flame the shit out of someone, but is too small of a man to just walk away and too much of a coward to take responsibility for his actions without some safety net to let him get off clean.

... I'm just gonna move on.

I mean, I'd like to think otherwise, since I'm actually one of the guys who was vouching for early NAC Terrorking in discussions about his NAC activity elsewhere(Eva was even going WTF are you high when I said TK's generally been a good poster on NAC about a year ago), but even I have to admit his current posting style is basically back to his usual Pojo trolling and flamebaiting and at the very least I can't really say he doesn't deserve it anymore.

If he posts like he does on Pojo then he'll legitimately dig himself a hole. Waiting for him to twitch before unleashing the hounds on him isn't a good way to do business. The fact that we have to talk about this in its own forum shows how much trust has been shaken.

And to put this in perspective. As far as I know, Yami's one of the oldest and most level-headed people we've ever had in this community. She's the one person who usually retains the bubbly personality and kind wisdom when the rest of us are flaming hellhounds, and if SHE'S pissed that cannot be a good thing.

Yes. She's mad. Terror is a douchebag son of a dick and he makes people mad with the way he talks. Just because he makes you fucking mad doesn't mean he's baiting every time and it doesn't mean that the staff should be waiting for the first sign because he makes people mad.

If the staff wants to crush Terror like a bug, then go ahead. I don't care. But you have to crush everyone else who meets or exceeds his level of aggression too. Either that or back off. Or they can do whatever they want because "Fuck you. We're the staff." and then after some time passes the forum collapses because we apparently don't know how to learn from history.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

Ragna, be careful. I may be 'mad' because I do things and like things, like YGO, which to some people's views may not fit my 'age-class'. It doesn't bother me and I am actually proud of that, I won't let myself be discriminated by wobbly general opinion about 'how things have to be'. Also. I DON'T hate TK. I never said so. I never said or thought that I want to 'crush' him. I won't stoop that low, I wouldn't be able to respect myself if I couldn't respect others. And I am quite sure, that I speak for staff here. We are not on a 'rule-the-world-rave', lol, why should we? We want people to be happy in here, discuss the stuff they have a common interest in.
I have to admit, TK's hate-spree about ZeXal DID hurt me. But ZeXal is not the reason I started warning him last month. It was the succession of, if such happens occasionally, borderline tolerable slashing around that made it due for a warning to my feelings. Again, note, I am NOT butthurt because he critizised Arc-V. I watch it and find stuff interesting, other stuff not so much. He was borderline insulting in his pm reply to the first warning, I looked over that and tried to place my reasons, which he obviously got into the wrong part of his throat. I am sorry, that my abilities to express myself failed to be clear enough to state my point to him.
I state it again, like I said before:

To make this clear: I don't and never wanted to have TK put on a chop-block <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/smile.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> But I (and I am sure, others too) would very much appreciate it, if he tones down his attack-mode and starts seeing things again he can enjoy together with others in here.

[Ragna]

I understand that you're not on some sort of warpath and I neglected to edit my post when the forum told me that someone had posted while I was replying, so that's on me. The point I'm trying to make isn't meant to be taken personally, which is hard to get off when in this conversation we have to point at others specifically. I'm just saying, the staff skirting the line because they believes Terror is skirting some sort of line breeds distrust and sets a precedent for other members that if you piss the mods off then your days are numbered, whether you're doing anything wrong or not.

If you remember, (without going into detail) we had a similar situation on the other end of the spectrum a few years ago with staff favorites/unfavorites and the rest of us as staff shut it down almost instantly.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

OK <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/NAC_Smiley_Pack_Default/smile.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> accepted. To explain a bit more the skirting the line thing. When warning TK, I knew and felt, that one post alone (like with the skirmish he had with DarkMaster) would never ever justify a warning. I felt like TKs posts a lot of times, just taken singularily, would not justify a warning. What bothered me really was the succession. As a mod, I think, I have a responsibility to protect those who will be intimidated more easily, too. This is, why we have these rules. Also, I wanted to have him think, because his posts between the lines sometimes read like of someone hurting immensly behind all the snarling. I don't know, how you can reach to someone who is hurting and doesn't seem to want to be reached out to. I cant fix things I don't know of. This is, what friends with closer access to a person are for. I want people to be happy, to be able to enjoy things, together.
And this is, why I am glad, Ark started this thread. Because only by communicating, we have a chance to lay bare the how and why behind this.

[Kahun]

I'm sorry if I had misconceptions about TK but honestly, I don't remember a single thread from pojo where he wasn't all "Hawhaw you dumbass I'm right" in his tone of voice and that probably meddles with my memory. I don't have a single memory about the guy that's good from pojo, let alone memories of him not being there when I still read through the threads. Which is why I was impressed with him being relatively civil here at first. Right now though..."Damnit. Not again." Is all that's in my head.

And as for favoritism, I honestly think there's none of that here for the current staff involved. Fucking hell, us ex-staff were more corrupt than Yami could ever be if you want to be blunt, and I was a goddamned rabid dog.

And I agree we need to be harder on the old guard and staff. Frankly I feel parts of the old guard and parts of its friend pool have turned into a little clique over the years and that can't be good for NAC. And as part of the earlier NAC members...yeah I didn't help, either. Which is why I regret it and feel what's left of that initial 5d's end + Janime fiasco double whammy has to stop. It's been 4 years. It's time to chillax and be civil and sort out just how much of which rage is caused by what, or face our desert for once.

Meanwhile, as for administration...to be blunt, Ark lacks charismatic authority as does Ary and they generally try to not involve themselves unless necessary, and the staff rarely plays hardball, so to be fair we're far closer to an anarchy that's partially controlled by informal member cliques than we are to a "staff favorites/unfavorites" sort of corruption. Whiiiich is also kind of bad;;

But fuck it, I'm not getting involved in this shit anymore.

[NeoArkadia]

I'm just saying, the staff skirting the line because they believes Terror is skirting some sort of line breeds distrust and sets a precedent for other members that if you piss the mods off then your days are numbered, whether you're doing anything wrong or not.

Trolling is inherently a subjective, non-objective, problem. It literally works on the adage of "I know it when I see it" (i.e. A Duck/Elephant Test). There can't be a hard line of what constitutes trolling. Because then the troll can be allowed to skirt a line but never go over it of "I'm not touching you" when the behavior is clearly meant to cause trouble. Restraining ourselves to a hard metric while the forum is plagued with problem members would be ludicrous if members report a person, but said problem member is intentionally avoiding stepping over that last inch of the line, and the staff is forced to go "According to my measuring stick it isn't good enough, even though they're clearly instigating a situation."

As to TerrorKing. You would have to ask what specifically Mystik and Yami believed constituted his behavior within the last year as trolling, as neither Mako, Arynis nor I had anything to do with warning or banning him.

Meanwhile, Ark lacks charismatic authority

I'm inherently an introvert, I'll admit this.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

Kahu, the hardball thing... In the parts I frequent here (so I can't speak of the VG-section) I have the feeling, that most of the times members do handle things responsible in their own and usually civil way. Which is good. VERY good. I am proud of them ^^ - I don't see, why I should interfere there very much, neither do I think, any of the others do, we can trust them getting along. Maybe this is, why TK's warnings stick out that much?
Again, I don't know, what is going on in the other sections... I just hope, we all learn from this.

[Kahun]

Oh, the YGO threads have been mostly civil, yeah. The other sections seem to skirt around here and there at times though. Also some of the off-NAC arguments seem to flow into here as well. :/

[Arynis]

So, again. We're warning him for any aggressive posts, whether he means it or not because of his reputation? And then the OP here pretends to invite him back in genuinely even though if he says an episode sucks one more time he'll get jumped? Sounds like bait that skirts the line of "Okay/Not Okay." Finteresting.

To clarify though, we take reputation into consideration only if there may be damn good a reason for it. We understand that people may have done things in the past but they have learned and are better, and so on. Everyone has a fresh start here unless there's a pattern we need to pay attention to.

In other words: We aren't going to lynch someone just because you have a past history at XY. But if issues arise here and there may be a pattern going on, then we will take it into consideration.

I guess Ark can't call people "Dear" anymore. That's patronizing and it offends me. I guess Mako can't post ANYTHING ever again since he literally tears down everyone he disagrees with while LAUGHING. That's aggressive and it offends me.

While Mako does tend to be rather blunt at times, I'd say that's kind of an exaggeration. And laughing? What.

If he posts like he does on Pojo then he'll legitimately dig himself a hole. Waiting for him to twitch before unleashing the hounds on him isn't a good way to do business. The fact that we have to talk about this in its own forum shows how much trust has been shaken.

We wanted to talk about it because there's been confusion going on, and certain people have gone as far as paint us as blood-drinking bloodlords who drink the blood of the members. This thread is our reasoning that it's not the case. Or at least clear up anything fuzzy.

If the staff wants to crush Terror like a bug, then go ahead. I don't care. But you have to crush everyone else who meets or exceeds his level of aggression too. Either that or back off. Or they can do whatever they want because "Fuck you. We're the staff." and then after some time passes the forum collapses because we apparently don't know how to learn from history.

If it were the last point, this thread wouldn't even exist and we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. I'd like to think we haven't gone that far yet as far as issues go.

Meanwhile, as for administration...to be blunt, Ark lacks charismatic authority as does Ary and they generally try to not involve themselves unless necessary

Same as Ark, I'm also kind of an introvert. I also have a locals to manage which admittedly also drains my attention and energy.

[TerrorKingA]

And do keep in mind that NAC technically has an anti-trolling clause in its rules that lets the staff decide who and who isn't trolling and harassing other members.

Oh, that's magnificent. So a moderator could just walk into this thread and ban Ragna for no reason other than "I think he's trying to get a rise out of everyone by not agreeing" and then there's nothing he can do about it.

Okay. I blunderstand. This sure is a great community, I tell you hwat.

In all honesty, you could just lock this thread. I'm not gonna get my apology, and none of you can justify the actions that took place a while a go, and I don't care either way. No, really, I don't. It's your forum and you can run it however you want. I'll just take my leave. It's a shame though, since I like quite a few of you (Ark, Arynis, Raku, Mako, Kahu, the Crow guy and wslasher, the endearing derp). But it isn't worth being a second-class citizen here.

Something something best in the world.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

And do keep in mind that NAC technically has an anti-trolling clause in its rules that lets the staff decide who and who isn't trolling and harassing other members.

Oh, that's magnificent. So a moderator could just walk into this thread and ban Ragna for no reason other than "I think he's trying to get a rise out of everyone by not agreeing" and then there's nothing he can do about it.

Okay. I blunderstand. This sure is a great community, I tell you hwat.

In all honesty, you could just lock this thread. I'm not gonna get my apology, and none of you can justify the actions that took place a while a go, and I don't care either way. No, really, I don't. It's your forum and you can run it however you want. I'll just take my leave. It's a shame though, since I like quite a few of you (Ark, Arynis, Raku, Mako, Kahu, the Crow guy and wslasher, the endearing derp). But it isn't worth being a second-class citizen here.

Something something best in the world.

I'm not gonna look at that link, because I'll probably get insulted. I won't apologize in any ways to a guy who insulted me for doing what I see is my duty here as mod. I explained above, if you chose not to read, then it is your problem, not mine.

Besides.... What about that banning Ragna stuff? Why should we?

[GoldenUmi]

Based on what I've skimmed over, Ragna, it sounds to me like you're pointing all fingers at the staff and making Terrorking out to be a victim here and you also paint a picture of him being a perfect, upstanding member who only gets heated during debates. In actuality, he has a history of intentionally baiting staff members with antagonistic posts just so he can make himself look like the victim. Posts such as what you can see in this thread as an example:

<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://neoarkcradle.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=1716&start=120">viewtopic.php?f=87&t=1716&start=120</a><!-- l -->

These are the actions of someone who goes out of their way to light a flame under staff members and forum participants in order to twist the situation to his favor. And when he "debates", he doesn't do so respectfully and uses very patronizing language, some of which is either legit or borderline flaming, which goes against forum rules.

Now you're here pointing fingers at the staff and members and attempting to further paint him as a victim when that isn't the case at all. What happened in the 46 thread was staff members acting on a situation reflective of tons and tons of other similar situations that resulted in heated flaming and causing unneeded drama within threads. The staff's duties are to remove such members that repeatedly break rules and stir up unwanted drama after being warned multiple times to cease their behavior. You claim it's just about attacking someone who speaks badly of a series we like, but that's completely invalid. If we punished every single person that spoke badly about ZeXal or ARC-V, less than half the current forum would be here right now. It's not about what you say, but how you go about doing it. You can maintain a peaceful debate without stooping to personal insults.

And before you accuse us of solely attacking one member, I can vouch for the staff here and say I know for a fact that several, several trolling members as of late have been given the same treatment for their behavior. And there's a reason for that. And to me, it seems more like you're just angry that a member you're friends with was being punished for said behavior and you're completely choosing to ignore the fact that there is a legitimate reason for the actions we've taken.

The fact that Terrorking "demands nothing less than an apology if we want him to stay around" proves what kind of person we're dealing with here. And the fact that he calls my response "You just watched 46 episodes of trash" "trolling" is also him trying to paint a negative picture of me here to suit his own needs. It doesn't matter to me who it is. If someone watches 46 episodes of anything and calls it trash, that will be my response. I wasn't posting that because it was Terrorking. And after he asked to debate the situation I proceeded to do so, in which he proceeded to patronize me and act like a child regardless. Why should I bother debating something with someone who treats me like a child in the first place?

[TerrorKingA]

I'm not gonna look at that link, because I'll probably get insulted. I won't apologize in any ways to a guy who insulted me for doing what I see is my duty here as mod. I explained above, if you chose not to read, then it is your problem, not mine.

I read your explanations and I find them to be weak and shaky at best. I've read every post in this thread, and they all boil down to "I don't like what Terrorking says on pojo, so I'm gonna treat him harshly here," and "I don't like what Terrorking has to say."

I make statements. I don't address them to anyone. I never do that. People take what I say as personal attacks against them for some reason, and then start flaming me. From there, I don't flame them; I take what they post and reply to each point raised. I may or may not sometimes put some vitriol in the reply. That happened here, where GoldenUmi blatantly tried to troll. Then, I acted out of character by calmly explaining to you, who gave a reply similar to his, why I say what I say.

You then took it upon yourself to give me a warning for it. And I'm not gonna lie and say "that didn't piss me off," because it did. Here, I gave reasons to support my point, and initially didn't even point my post at anyone, but then you two MODERATORS come into the thread and aggravate me and then I get a warning? You don't see the copious amount of bullshit there?

---------------------------------------------------------

As to the notion in this thread that I only post hate?

Yeah, these sure are full of it.

Do note that the last three are NAC threads. Also of note is that me despising the yugioh (card game) fandom has never been brought up by me on this site until this thread. Though I'll admit the stuff that happened culminating in my ban has soured me on quite a chunk of it. "Oh this guy isn't singing Arc V's praises. What a monster! Let's get him out of here!"

I find it degrading to go "but I've said numerous times that Arc-V is okay" because I don't see a reason to explain myself or what I like to anyone. But, you know, if you dig up all the posts I've made about Arc-V, you'll see for yourself I congratulate it when it does something right, but pick out things it does wrong. And it shouldn't even matter if I don't highlight its positive qualities: it's my opinion. What is this, kindergarten?

----------------------------------------------------------------

And just because I'm petty, since what we do on pojo apparently matters, here's what your esteemed moderator does in his free time. This kid wrote a really bad story, and GoldenUmi being the nice guy he is then called the kid's work garbage and went to rewrite his fiction "better than he ever could". That's far worse than anything I've ever done, since that's as personal an attack as you can make it.

[GoldenUmi]

Again, Terrorking, you're accusing me of trolling with one line of sarcasm that I would have given to anyone and ignoring the fact that nearly all of your posts contain similar and worse attempts at trolling everyone else you come into contact with. Stop trying to make yourself out to be a victim here when you're clearly not. Don't make us dig up a long list of all your previous posts.

EDIT: And posting the of mice and josh situation makes you a hypocrite since you're trying to say your actions on other forums are irrelevant. That also happened more than a year ago. Nice try. You just made yourself look even worse. And the of mice and josh situation was stemmed from a troll who proved himself as a troll, so I don't want to hear about it.

[TerrorKingA]

And posting the of mice and josh situation makes you a hypocrite since you're trying to say your actions on other forums are irrelevant.

Clearly you aren't paying attention.

And just because I'm petty, since what we do on pojo apparently matters,

Haven't you read through this thread? What we do on pojo is of great import, apparently. That's why I got my ban, isn't it? Because of how I am on pojo?

[闇の女王ヤミ]

TK, just beause something is 'a statement' as you say, it doesn't mean, that you are above all other rules of social interaction.

Edit: Also, you got the one day ban, because you had a third warning for recurrant flame baiting and trolling (-the statements, in this case). Three warnings automaticly cause the said one day ban.

[TerrorKingA]

TK, just beause something is 'a statement' as you say, it doesn't mean, that you are above all other rules of social interaction.

It's not "interaction" since I wasn't talking to anyone. I threw a generic paragraph out there, not directed at ANYONE. I wanted to air my words.

Edit: Also, you got the one day ban, because you had a third warning for recurrant flame baiting and trolling (-the statements, in this case). Three warnings automaticly cause the said one day ban.

And I'm saying ALL THREE of those warnings we ill-gotten.

I got warned once in the past by Ark, but said nothing about it because I was clearly wrong for making fun of Crystal Beasts. I got another warning once for making fun of some guy's avatar, and again said nothing about it. So why am I making a fuss about it this time? Because I shouldn't have gotten them in the first place. That's why I want an apology.

-------------------------------------------------------------

And since everyone keeps taking my question to Ark seriously, that guy and I were joking with each other.

Speaking of PMs, this guy just isn't getting the message. I don't want you pm'ing me your harassment, dude.

[闇の女王ヤミ]

If you are not talking to anyone, what do you want then?

You want people to put you on ignore, because you are not interested in any conversation anyway?

[TerrorKingA]

If you are not talking to anyone, what do you want then?

To make a post in a thread dedicated to the episode of Arc V that I just watched. It's that simple.

[thewingedchickenofra]

TK, just beause something is 'a statement' as you say, it doesn't mean, that you are above all other rules of social interaction.

It's not "interaction" since I wasn't talking to anyone. I threw a generic paragraph out there, not directed at ANYONE. I wanted to air my words.

Edit: Also, you got the one day ban, because you had a third warning for recurrant flame baiting and trolling (-the statements, in this case). Three warnings automaticly cause the said one day ban.

And I'm saying ALL THREE of those warnings we ill-gotten.

I got warned once in the past by Ark, but said nothing about it because I was clearly wrong for making fun of Crystal Beasts. I got another warning once for making fun of some guy's avatar, and again said nothing about it. So why am I making a fuss about it this time? Because I shouldn't have gotten them in the first place. That's why I want an apology.

-------------------------------------------------------------

And since everyone keeps taking my question to Ark seriously, that guy and I were joking with each other.

Speaking of PMs, this guy just isn't getting the message. I don't want you pm'ing me your harassment, dude.

That pm you sent MasterGhost is disgusting.

[Raku]

I'm not gonna look at that link, because I'll probably get insulted. I won't apologize in any ways to a guy who insulted me for doing what I see is my duty here as mod. I explained above, if you chose not to read, then it is your problem, not mine.

Besides.... What about that banning Ragna stuff? Why should we?

The point was that you could ban Ragna for anything. Not that you would. Or should. If staff look at a situation to decide what trolling is, it can be seen as 'anything I deem fit' and can be defended with 'I thought it was' Terrorking was saying that he dislikes such a nebulous rule.

[MasterGhost]

And since everyone keeps taking my question to Ark seriously, that guy and I were joking with each other.

Question: Who the hell sees your PMs? Who can tell that post you made on Ark's thread is strictly meant to be a joke? With no clarification whatsoever, I could only tell that you were trolling there.

And now you intend to portray yourself as the victim by showing PMs that NO ONE ELSE (except you two) reads? How does this logic even work?

Speaking of PMs, this guy just isn't getting the message. I don't want you pm'ing me your harassment, dude.

That would be my last ever PM to you. Before you accuse me of harassment, why don't you reflect on your language in your last reply to me?